BusinessTok - A Short Form Video Marketing Podcast
BusinessTok is a short form video marketing podcast that highlights real business owners and entrepreneurs that are leveraging short form video on social media to grow their business and generate income! You will learn what goes on behind the scenes and the tactical strategies for how to leverage the fastest-growing social media platform ever to grow your business!
BusinessTok - A Short Form Video Marketing Podcast
Unlock YouTube Success: Secrets from Nick Nimmin & Austin Armstrong
Today’s guest is…the youtube LEGEND, Nick Nimmin!
Connect with Nick Nimmin:
https://www.youtube.com/@NickNimmin
https://www.nicknimmin.com/
https://www.tiktok.com/@nicknimmin
https://www.instagram.com/nicknimmin/
Connect with your host:
https://www.tiktok.com/@usefulaiwebsites
https://www.linkedin.com/in/austinarmstrong90/
https://twitter.com/SocialtyPro
https://www.facebook.com/Owwstin/
https://www.youtube.com/@socialtypro
If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a 5-star review on iTunes and subscribe here on YouTube! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/businesstok-a-tiktok-marketing-podcast/id1612378488
Ever wondered how short-form videos can transform your content creation game? Join me, Austin Armstrong, as I sit down with YouTube legend Nick Nimmin to uncover the secrets behind his meteoric rise and how he helps creators thrive on the platform. We'll discuss the importance of consistency, hard work, and continual learning, offering you valuable insights into turning your natural talents into a sustainable and successful business. Nick's journey from humble beginnings to top YouTube mentor will inspire you to set clear goals and take deliberate actions toward achieving your dreams.
Sharing my own entrepreneurial journey, from pizza place worker to successful YouTube content creator, we'll explore the pivotal moments and challenges that shaped my career. Learn how a background in design and digital services led me to internet marketing, and how overcoming personal hurdles like camera shyness and seeking expert advice played crucial roles in my growth. The episode also highlights the game-changing impact of mentorship, providing you with a firsthand look at how guidance and support can accelerate your success on YouTube.
In this episode, Nick and I also delve into the benefits of live streaming and the revolutionary impact of YouTube Shorts. Discover how live streaming can build strong community connections and its potential for repurposing into different content types. We'll share our mixed feelings about YouTube Shorts, discussing their pros and cons for new creators. Additionally, we explore effective funneling strategies and introduce CreatorMix, a valuable resource offering copyright-free music for content creators. Tune in to gain actionable insights and strategies to elevate your content creation to new heights!
I'm just not a huge fan of them driving people into shorts as aggressively as they are. I think it's a degrading of the platform from the creator side.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to Business Talk, a short form video marketing podcast. I'm your host, austin Armstrong, and on this show I interviewed the best content creators and entrepreneurs who have leveraged short form video to actually drive leads and sales. In this podcast, we deep dive into their tactical strategies so that you can get actionable takeaways. You can connect with me across social media at Socialty Pro.
Speaker 2:Today's episode is sponsored by my company, syllabiio. Syllabi is a one-stop shop for video marketing on social media, from finding viral topics in your industry to generating you video scripts, creating faceless videos, creating your own AI avatars and even direct publishing to your social media accounts. Syllabi is like five tools in one. You can get started today with a seven-day free trial in the show notes. Let's jump into today's episode. Today's guest is the YouTube legend, nick Nimmin. Nick Nimmin helps content creators thrive on YouTube by providing tips, tools and resources to help them navigate the complexities of the platform, and he practices what he preached with almost 1 million YouTube subscribers. I am so excited to finally see you get that gold play button for yourself, brother.
Speaker 1:How are you? Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm doing fantastic. Austin, super excited to be here today. Super appreciate, you know, the conversation that I know we're getting ready to have. It's going to be awesome, looking forward to adding value to anybody that's listening to the podcast. But most importantly, man, I'm just excited to be here. You know, talking to you like this is fantastic. You know I see what it is that you're doing. You're absolutely crushing it on every single way that somebody can crush it and I'm just excited to be here and be a part of the conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, man, and it's been so awesome to get to know you, because I'm a big practice what I preach type of person as well and I've learned so much from you and I try to learn from all of the online coaches across every platform. I jumped into the YouTube game 10 years ago and I went to conferences. I've seen you speak a bunch. I've seen all of these amazing. I buy the YouTube books. I listened to the YouTube podcast. I think I told you the first time that we met in person at a conference I was a big fan of comments over coffee, over the YouTube podcast. Man, like I listened to that every episode.
Speaker 2:I just you know, you soak it up, you apply and you stick with it, and consistency over time and making those micro improvements compound incredibly well and it took me, you know, eight years of consistency to really for it to compound and grow. But that's you know. I'm not special, I don't have that natural talent. I just work hard, right, and that's why I think everybody that is willing to just stick with it can grow, as long as they take action, they learn from the best, they actually apply, they try and improve 1% every single time, and so it's just an honor to be to to be chatting with you, man, so thank you, that's awesome and you know to kind of follow that up a little bit.
Speaker 1:You know how you mentioned, you know it took eight years and the importance of you know to kind of follow that up a little bit.
Speaker 1:You know how you mentioned, you know it took eight years and the importance of you know that momentum and just kind of you know seeing something through and having that vision.
Speaker 1:You know, I think when it comes to that natural talent I don't think hardly anybody has natural talent I think when it comes to you know the natural talent side of things, I think you know, if you're a musician and you know practicing all the time to even be able to identify that, you have that talent in the first place. And then the real challenge comes to where you're like, hey, if I'm gonna take these talents and I'm gonna turn them into a business of some kind, how do I do that? And then from there nobody has that natural skill. That's another thing that you have over time in terms of just the understanding of learning how to do those types of things. So you know, when it comes to, you know that, that you know seeing things through and that consistency, you know that's the way, putting in those reps to, you know, achieve pretty much anything. It is that you want to achieve. It's just setting that target on the wall and then you know taking all the actions required in order to hit it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and talking about consistency, I mean, you have been such a beast on YouTube, man, but I really don't know your origin story before starting to coach on YouTube and being, you know, one of the largest YouTube tips and strategies channels on YouTube. Where did you come from before YouTube man? What were you doing that ultimately led you to be a content creator?
Speaker 1:So I've been a serial entrepreneur since I've been about 19 years old, so the last job that I had was working at a pizza place, and after that I left that, and I basically have been trying to figure things out ever since I'm in my 40s now. So, like you were talking about, it's been a lot of consistency, a lot of hard work, tons of failure along the way. But right before I got onto YouTube, though, I was doing online digital services. So basically, the process was where I would basically just go on a bunch of web forums and spam. At that time I don't know if they still do, but you would you were able to add your links down in your signature services that you offered.
Speaker 1:So I was just on all the forums spamming everything you know under that brand name at the time, and when I was doing that, you know I would just, you know, get customers and all of that. And it allowed me to, you know, be able to work online and be able to work from anywhere, being able to design for people. So I learned how to design in high school and then I continued through just the passion of loving design and, you know, self-taught, continued designer from there and I started offering those services as a way to be able to work online so that I can live in Thailand. And when I came over here, that was all I was doing at that time. And, as you know, you know somebody that's offered services in the past. When you offer a service, you have clients that start asking you for additional services. Hey, do you know anybody that can do this? Do you know anybody that can do this? So at that time, I started having people ask me for you know, hey, do you know anybody that knows anything about search engines? Because we're trying to get our blogs to, you know, show up in Google search and things like that. So I started watching a bunch of Matt Cutts videos when he was doing the webmaster videos way back in the day. You know about Google for Google web developers, and at that time I started figuring out how to, you know, get websites to rank and search and all of that, and I started offering that as a service, as well as writing blog posts and that sort of thing, and that became like a little side thing as part of that business as well. So through those two things and just working with other customers and seeing some of the things that other people that were doing things online were doing, I started looking into internet marketing and part of that was I was also wanting to kind of get out of the design thing, just because I you know my brother and I because we had that together we had a string of difficult clients and because of that it just made the passion side of it not as passionate and I was just looking for other things to get into and a forum I was frequenting at that time called the Web Warrior Forum. On there a lot of people were talking about how impactful at that time keep in mind this was 10 years ago how impactful at that time YouTube was for growing an email list and one of the things that I had learned from, you know, trying to learn about internet marketing was how important an email list is. So because of that I was like, okay, so they're saying that you can get emails on YouTube. I know that if I want to get into internet marketing, I got to, you know, start generating some email addresses. So I don't really want to do this YouTube thing, but I guess I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 1:It wasn't that easy. I had a bunch of stuff I had to work through but I was like, let me give it a shot. And one of the things that I had to work through was overcoming camera shyness, because I didn't wanna be the guy on camera At that time, 10 years ago. I mean, look now, but at 10 years ago I was thinking to myself YouTube's like a young person thing, I'm too old to even this. I don't want my brother to know, friends to know, I don't want any family members to know. I just want to do this kind of low key.
Speaker 1:And I had to work through all of these problems in my own brain and kind of overcome my own fears of getting on camera and all the judgment that I might take in because of it. So one of the things that I learned from watching other people at that time like Daryl Eves, tim Schmoyer when he was with Real SEO, james Wedmore, gideon Shalwick, david Walsh online as well One of the things that they mentioned was, if you're gonna start a YouTube channel, one of the really good places to start, if you just don't know what to do, is just talk about problems that you're overcoming yourself that you can help other people with. So I was like, okay, let me do that and I'll just make this first video about how to overcome camera shyness. And I did, and because I was doing it for the purpose of generating email addresses, that very first video, I had an email opt-in and I started driving emails right away from that very first video. And then from there it took me about five months to get my first 150 subscribers on my YouTube channel, just like everybody else, right Struggling, doesn't know what to do. And then I had the opportunity to work with somebody else who did know what they were doing on another channel and during that period of time they were a mentor and they basically got me up to speed on what matters when it comes to YouTube and we started that another channel called All Our Questions, which is still online, and on that channel we started getting some momentum right away, started growing the fan base right away. All of that stuff was great.
Speaker 1:But I couldn't handle the workload because at that time I was still doing the design service, still helping people, you know, with their search engine optimization, plus having to make YouTube videos, and I just wasn't making any money from the YouTube stuff at the time. And I kind of hit this breaking point to where it was like, okay, I need to either stop doing YouTube completely which I wasn't willing to do because I had caught the bug already. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to stop doing YouTube completely and just go back to what I was doing before and stick my head in the sand, or I'm going to come back to my other channel and just start talking about things from my life that are, you know, a little bit easier to make that content, because it wasn't things that I had to research and stuff like that. So at that time I got back to talking about, you know, like SEO and you know, coming up with video ideas and things like that that I was dealing with at that time and one video that I made specifically about YouTube SEO. The comments just lit up on that and people are like make more like this, make more like this. Cause it was more strategy based instead of just kind of you know, theoretical, like oh, you want to come up with video ideas, go look at magazine racks and you know those types of things.
Speaker 1:So, uh, what happened from there is just like YouTube's algorithm follows the audience. I was like, okay, let me follow the audience too. I didn't have any of this stuff planned. So, basically for me, I started making videos sharing the things that were working for me at that point in time, and then, from there, people started reaching out to me for help and for a long time I was like, no, I don't do that, I don't even know how to do. It had one person that was like I know, you don't know how to do it, but let me try. Like, let me be your test subject here, your guinea pig, and try out. And I was like, okay, I will. And then got results for them. And then I was like, well, let me try another one and then help them, you know, get results. And then it just kind of, you know, expanded from there.
Speaker 1:And then one of the really cool things that that taught me was when it comes to YouTube, everything isn't the same for every channel. There's general best practices that everybody has to follow, or most people have to follow, but when it comes to you know the nuts and bolts of everything. You know things are different across channels. So, for example, you know on your Sociality Pro channel, what you do with your thumbnails might not be as effective if I do the same exact thing with my thumbnails and just like you know somebody else in some other niche what it is that they're doing with their thumbnails or their titles, it might not work if I try to do it for mine. And it just kind of taught me that lesson and it just started giving me more info for myself to work with also, and, um, and I started applying all of that to you know my channel and following best practices and all of that stuff. And you know next thing, you know I'm sitting here on this show having this conversation with you.
Speaker 2:That was amazing, man. There's so much that I that we could unpack there, uh, and go down deep rabbit holes. I mean, you know, one thing that you brought up they worked before but still is relevant today is is just talking about the problems that you're actively going through and how you're finding solutions and working through them. That's just kind of human psychology, and people also have the same problems that you have that you are currently going through, and people also love the hero's journey a bit too right, and so that's a great sort of for Joseph Campbell. It's a great actionable thing that you can work into your content strategy right, Like I have this problem. Here's an obstacle, here's the goal, here's what I'm working towards, here's, you know, the things that are happening along the way that ultimately get towards that goal and that's just kind of included in our DNA.
Speaker 2:That is storytelling, since storytelling existed. So that is always a good format, that that is always going to be relevant, no matter how you create content, uh, on online, and it's it's. It's amazing to hear you know, you, you've been at it so long and you're still so passionate about it. I wanted to ask you about live streaming too, because you, you've been such a great advocate for live streaming over the years, and and your, your brother D as well you, you guys, have done so many crazy things with. With live streaming like what? 12 hour live streams, like just insane, insane, long, long, long live streams of just value. Can you talk about your experience with live streaming and your thoughts on it currently and in the current state of YouTube?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. When it comes to live streaming, a lot of people look at live streaming in terms of how's that going to help my video content, just like they kind of look at short form content right now. The general kind of mind state of content creators right now is why are people that are watching my shorts not interacting with my long form content? Or why are people that are interacting with my live streams not interacting with my long form content? Or you know any just kind of move those around and you know it apply to in any direction. Or you know any just kind of move those around and you know it apply to in any direction. But the idea that I try to share with people is that when you create these different assets for people to interact with, or these different pieces of content for people to interact with, you get to one meet people where they are. Two, you get to be in front of people based on what it is that they prefer from you. So you know, like in your case, for example, you're going to have some people that are listening to this show that are not watching every vertical piece of content that you put up. You're going to have other people that are watching all the vertical content that you're putting up, but they're not listening to this show, and it's just based on their preferences. It's not that you're doing one wrong or one you know right or whatever. It's just that you know people have their preferences. So because of that, when you live stream, you get to meet people where they are, but it goes. It goes deeper than that. So when it comes to live streaming, it's a lot different than making video content, and the reason for that is because typically, when it comes to video content, a lot of content creators will polish that video content up. You can say things a bunch of times until you get it right. You can make sure that everything's perfect. And through that process, you also go through a negative thing in my opinion, but we all do it which is you strip away parts of your personality that you don't want people to see and you make sure that the parts of your personality that you do want people to see are in the content. When it comes to live streaming, you don't have that luxury. You just have to be yourself, and because of that, live streams create a really strong connection with the people that you're interacting with.
Speaker 1:So there's something called parasocial interaction or parasocial relationships, and the whole concept of parasocial relationships is that it's a one-sided relationship and the whole concept of parasocial relationships. It stems from hollywood and the whole thing is basically to where characters that play TV shows or they play certain characters in movies when they're out in the street, people get to know them through that content that they make and when they meet them in the street, they think that they're that person. They expect them to act in the way that that person does and all of that and it's just based on their perception of what's going on, based on their one-sided view of their relationship, but it's still a connection that's created. So, when it comes to live streaming, the same thing happens, because you are putting it all out there and you're sharing the nuances of who you are and how you look at things and you're communicating in your natural way. It gives you the opportunity to lean into that parasocial relationship and, like, really let people know who you are and what it is that you're about and be your most authentic self. And I know that that sounds new agey, but that's a really powerful thing when it comes to live streaming is it's a great community builder.
Speaker 1:So, as you know, austin, when it comes to you know creating content, it's important to work in content that nurtures your audience as part of your strategy. If you want you know audience as part of your strategy, if you want you know people to get deeply involved with what it is that you're doing. Live streams are a great way to kind of do that in a really fast way. So, as long as you can get people showing up to your live streams, you can call people out by name, you can answer their questions directly, you can answer their comments directly, you can laugh with them, and that situation is similar to what happens when you're in person, and that's what really helps reinforce those relationships that you get during live streams.
Speaker 1:But in addition to that, you also start creating a general viewership around your live streams. So then you have people that regularly watch your videos, you have people that regularly watch your short form or your vertical content, and then you have the people that regularly are sticking in and hanging out in your live streams as well. So you get to create an entirely different audience around it, which means you also get to create additional sponsorship opportunities and other monetization opportunities around that core audience that you're creating there as well, so it's basically just an entirely additional asset that you're building for yourself by live streaming. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2:And you know the other thing that I love and I need to do more live streaming, but it's it's probably the best option to get the most repurpose ability out of it as well. I mean, if you really break it down, like you could live stream a podcast, so you have the podcast, the audio et cetera, and then, if it's optimized, it could live as a long form video on YouTube. And then you could clip it, like Joe Rogan, say, right, and have individual clips on individual segments, on individual subjects that can blow up on trending topics, et cetera right. But then you could also turn it into shorts. You change the aspect ratio, you use a tool like Opus or something like that and you turn one long live stream into a hundred different shorts that you could take and repurpose across all social media platforms. It just gives you so many opportunities and I love it there.
Speaker 1:The other thing I was just and it's not just on the repurposing side either. It's also like if you are somebody that is doing all these things professional like, let's say, that you are somebody that is uploading content as a marketer, or you're somebody that's uploading content as a mortgage broker or a real estate agent or some type of other service provider or, you know, expert In that particular case you also get to flex your expertise as well, because when it comes to video content, you can I mean technically, you could give me a document about a script for being a dentist. Right, we could make that in syllabi. Right, we could make this a script about you know some tips, about you know dental health or something like that, and I would be able to commute that, communicate that script with an authoritative enough tone that when people interacted with that script, they'd be like, huh, this guy might have a dental license, right.
Speaker 1:So when it comes to live streaming, it's different, because with live streaming, when people are asking you questions and things like that, like you have to be able to do it on the fly, versus being able to have any types of preparation to where you're like, oh well, I'm just going to construct this to make it look like I want it to look.
Speaker 1:Now it's like, okay, people are just throwing stuff at you and you have to be able to react to that, you know, on the fly. Now, of course, it's going to be dependent on the type of live stream that you do, but it's also a really good place for that. In fact, for me personally, speaking, doing speaking engagements, was never on my list of things that I had wanted to do or that I was trying to do in any way. However, through my live streams, that allowed people to see that, like okay, you know he knows what he's talking about, he's good on his feet and things like that, and because of that, that live stream actually got me speaking engagements as well. So you know, yeah, so your live streams can do more for you than just grow a fan base. They also can show other people that are peers or you know people that can kind of give you a lift up, so to speak, that you know that you know what you're talking about, which is great.
Speaker 2:I love that as somebody who wanted to be a public speaker and has accomplished that, which is a personal goal of mine. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. I definitely have to do more live streaming. Maybe I'll get more speaking engagements from doing that. That's great. I love interacting with people at events as well just the one-on-ones, the questions that you get after a speech on stage. It's so fun. I love doing that.
Speaker 2:I was also laughing at your point about the parasocial relationships. I saw an interview recently with the actor that plays Homelander on the Boys. Have you watched the Boys at all? I haven't. That plays Homelander on the Boys. Have you watched the Boys at all? I haven't. Okay, it's a very violent superhero show on Amazon and it's almost a satirical take on. If Trump was a crazy supervillain and people are all, oh, nice, it's pretty crazy. But I saw a recent interview with him that people go up on the street and think he's, he's Homelander, which is this like megalomaniac, narcissistic, psychopath, uh, that just murders people, like crazy and they're, and he's like no, I'm a really nice person. So there can be pros and cons to that parasocial relationship as well, depending how you come across. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And you can get that from videos too, you know, for example, you know we both know, you know anybody that's like keeping an eye on what's going on with AI stuff. You know you'll probably run into Matt Wolfe as an example. So you know, as soon as the consumer grade AI started hitting the scene about, you know, a year ago, when he started his channel, you know I was watching, you know, his videos all the time to stay up to date. And then when I saw him at VidSummit, you know I walked up to him and not only did I like fanboy out a little bit and I'm like you know, hey dude, you know I've been watching your videos, blah, blah, blah. But like I threw that pair of social relationship to him, almost like I just hadn't seen him in a while.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think that that's another you know, really uh, uh powerful thing when it comes to online video and live streaming as well. So, true, I, I love that about being a content creator and go into conferences as well as just chatting with people. I mean, we, we were just in in tube fest and, uh, there's a guy, chris a out to Chris Cowden that we've been connected online for a while and like he's watched a lot of my content, but we've also done stuff like podcasts and whatnot together, but that was the first time that we actually met in person and so, like you form this relationship from like sort of seeing each other and each other's content, and then when you finally meet each other in person, it's like you are friends, you know that person, so it's just, it's an amazing experience. Now to go into kind of YouTube shorts I want to get your honest opinion on the state of YouTube shorts right now. Do you like them? Do you hate them? Do they hurt long form channels? Go deep on YouTube shorts if you want here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. In terms of my personal taste, I like watching them, but I do not like how YouTube is taking attention away from long form content to drive people into short form content. I think it's counterintuitive. I'm sure they have data to back up, like maybe if somebody goes into shorts, they end up spending more time overall on the platform. You know things like that. But as a content creator, I don't like it. And as a viewer I don't like it because if I'm on YouTube and I'm loading up the regular side of YouTube, I want to watch that stuff. If I want to watch shorts, then I want to click into the short shelf and go watch shorts, right. So because of that, I'm not a huge fan of that. Even with the most recent update that they're testing right now that it looks like they're rolling out, they even have over on the side to where, on a desktop, you're going to be able to see like related shorts or not related shorts, but remix shorts, that that your viewers have made and things like that. But I'm just not a huge fan of them driving people into shorts as aggressively as they are. I think it's a degrading of the platform from the creator side.
Speaker 1:Now, with that said, I also think that Shorts can be a very powerful tool for a bunch of different reasons. So the very first is if you're somebody that's just getting started on YouTube, shorts are an amazing place to get started, and the reason for that is YouTube is hard. Youtube is really hard. There's a lot of skills that you have to learn. There's a lot of moving parts that you need to be able to get in place just to be able to compete on YouTube to where you publish a video and you start getting a decent amount of views on that video compared to all of the other videos that are on YouTube. Right? That's a very difficult thing to do. When it comes to shorts, it's easier in that regard because you just have to focus on one skill, which is I mean, there's skill. There's another stack of skills involved in this, but you just have to focus on making good videos, right? You don't have to worry about clicking on them. Your title can be okay. Titles do matter when it comes to shorts, but the title can be okay.
Speaker 1:But the thing with YouTube shorts is they just happen to people. People don't choose to watch them unless they come in from. You know one of the shorts that YouTube shows on a homepage or something like that. So because of that, a majority of the shorts viewers that are interacting with content, you know somebody swipes up and then bam, there's your video. So your skillset comes down to how can I grab somebody's attention and how can I pull them through this content enough to where YouTube deems it as a satisfactory experience for this viewer. That is a lot easier than how do I come up with a good video topic that, if it shows up on somebody's homepage that a bunch of people are going to be interested in this. And then how do I make a thumbnail that is going to not only grab their attention but help them identify the content about something that they care about? And then how am I going to write a good, compelling title that then is going to essentially convince that person that this video is worthy of their time. And then, once they click in, then you have to go through the whole process that you have to go through in terms of holding somebody's attention with the video for a longer period of time, which is also more difficult to do.
Speaker 1:So it's just a different game that you're playing in shorts, but I think, when it comes to shorts, though, it's a great opportunity for motivation, right? Because if you're a new content creator and you're publishing long-form videos and you're getting 10 views on a video, you're going to think why am I doing this, right? How long am I going to get 10 views on a video before I start getting 100 views? Or how long am I going to get 100 views before I start getting 1,000 views? And when it comes to short form content, you can publish your very first short and right away you're probably gonna see you know somewhere between you know 50 to you know a hundred views on that particular short, and it's gonna feel amazing. So it's gonna hit your dopamine and your dopamine is gonna say this is working. And then you're gonna keep going, and I think that by itself, is a really powerful thing when it comes to Shorts in terms of new creators.
Speaker 1:Now, when it comes to experienced creators, I think Shorts is another thing that has advantages as well. The advantage is it gets you in front of new people. So, again, even when you publish long-form videos, if you have experience, still you sometimes don't hit the mark. Sometimes YouTube's algorithm just based on how things work, they won't show your videos to people that haven't interacted with your videos in a while, whereas if you publish a YouTube short, they're just putting you in front of. It's kind of like a shotgun approach to where they're just kind of testing the waters to see who will respond to your content. And as long as they find a vein to follow, so to speak, in terms of people that are responding well to it, then you know you can just ride that short out for a nice period of time. So it's a great way to get in front of new people, which can help you grow your following, and it can also, you know, help on the dopamine side in terms of like okay, this is great, this is working. I'm getting in front of new people. I'm growing my channel. People are into what it is that I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Three is shorts is a great way to bring attention to things, because when it comes to long form content, it's difficult to get people to click around something that they don't care about or they don't know about, or they don't. You know that they're not thinking about like oh, this person's talking about this new tool. Don't care, I came on here to watch. You know something else when it comes to shorts, you have less than a minute to hold somebody's attention and you can bring somebody. You can bring someone's attention onto anything that you want to bring attention to and, just based on the shotgun approach that the YouTube shorts algorithm is, when you publish that short, it's going to show up in front of a certain amount of people. If you have something to sell, some you know message that you're trying to share, you know some cause you're trying to bring attention to, then in that particular case, it's that message is going to get in front of people in YouTube Shorts and you can count on that. So because of that, I think it's really advantageous there.
Speaker 1:The big disconnect that I see happening is the way that people are looking at Shorts and what it is that they're used for. So I kind of touched on this earlier when I was talking about how you know long form creators, because you know people like myself. Right, I've been on YouTube for a decade and we see shorts pop up and it's like, well, how can I use this to get everybody over to my long form content? Because, through my experience, that's where all the juice is right. However, you have to evolve with all of this stuff as it moves along and you have to look at it like okay, my long form videos are there for this purpose, my shorts are there for this purpose and I'm going to deliver this value and this is exactly what I'm using shorts for. And then, if you choose to live stream, then you do that too.
Speaker 1:But I encourage people to look at shorts and long form as two totally different games that you're playing and two totally different approaches that you can take and two opportunities to serve two different types of viewers at different times. So you know, for example, for me, usually when I'm in YouTube Shorts, it's I'm multitasking. If I'm watching something on Netflix, maybe I'm waiting on something, like I'm sitting there just waiting for my coffee to you know to be served, or whatever. Maybe maybe I'm in the bathroom, you know like be served or whatever. Maybe leave him in the bathroom, you know, like those types of things.
Speaker 2:Just tell you what it is right. No, it is. People don't want that conversation, don't want to have that conversation, but that's the reality, it is.
Speaker 1:It is and in those moments, you know, it gives you that opportunity to meet people that are in scenarios like that, or people that are just sitting there binging shorts because they like shorts more. So if you're not making shorts, then I think you are kind of sleeping on that audience, so to speak, because there are people that you can reach there and they don't necessarily have to convert over to your long form content. So, within YouTube's algorithms, they have algorithms that are running everything, and it's not just one big algorithm, it's different algorithms for everything. So, when it comes to shorts, just make short content that serves people there, and you're going to do great. For long form content, make good content that serves people there. You'll do great. When it comes to live streaming, make content that serves people there. You're going to do great. So just looking at everything as a separate that adds up to the whole is the approach that I like to encourage people to take. Now, when it comes to the crossover, to be fair, youtube does have, or they have built the bridges to where, if people are interacting with your long form content, then they're more likely to see your shorts. If people are interacting with your shorts, they're more likely to see your long form content and so on, and they've even added direct features. To where somebody's watching a short, you can add a related video and people can follow through that related video to go see the long form content.
Speaker 1:Now again, this is another one where people are like why aren't people crossing over? Some people do because of the shotgun approach of YouTube shorts. One thing that's really important to keep in mind is the first. I think they mentioned it's somewhere around 400 views of a YouTube short is basically just impressions, where they're just testing it against people, and then, if you go past that, that means that people are, they found the right audience for it and those people are, you know, enjoying the short. So, because of that, when you publish to YouTube shorts, think of it as a numbers at scale scenario. So you publish to YouTube shorts, it goes in front of a bunch of people. Some of those people are going to be qualified for it. Some of those people are not.
Speaker 1:But what you're looking for is you're looking for just a person, a couple of people, a handful of people to see your face or see whatever it is that you're sharing or showing in that short. Make that connection. Hey, this is them. Out. Of those people, maybe you might have a couple that come over and interact with your long-form content because they really like what it is that you're doing. But just looking at it like, hey, I'm going to serve them over there and just based on scale, some of those people will trickle over, just like in Austin. I'm sure you can account for this.
Speaker 1:If you are publishing over on TikTok and your TikTok's doing really well, a lot of people also look at that and they say how can I get my TikTok viewers over to YouTube? Same exact thing applies. I've followed people over on TikTok and I'm like man, I love their content. Let me hit their bio and see if they have a YouTube channel so I can also watch them over there. Everybody that watches their videos don't do that. But for the people that are really into what it is that you're doing, they're going to Same exact thing. When it comes to YouTube Shorts, everybody isn't going to trickle over. But the people that are like, wow, this is really good, I really enjoyed this, or this was super funny, or I got a lot of value out of this, those people are going to cross over and they're going to at least check out your channel and see what it is that you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great advice there. I mean the actual, like physical feature related video I think needs a little improvement. To be honest, like from just a UI perspective, like it, it doesn't look even that different from the title. It's like just a line of text, right, it's like related video, um, and it's right above the title and it's almost like nothing pops about it. No, it doesn't draw your eyes to that at all. I think they'll probably.
Speaker 1:I think it was a pacifier. If I'm honest, okay, makes sense.
Speaker 2:I think it was a pacifier, yeah, cause it like and I get a lot of shorts views, uh and, and almost every short that I upload, I try and I add it a related video, but it really doesn't drive that much. Like, from a million shorts views a month it'll drive like 500 long views, so it's like not worth, you know, is it? Yeah, not worth focusing on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Is it worth like collectively every single day to add that extra step and select a manual video? Not right now, but maybe they'll. Maybe it is just a pacifier, who knows, who knows? Now YouTube also just released a brand new feature and we were kind of talking about this last week a little bit thumbnail A-B testing. So I know you have some thoughts on this. I'd love to hear what those are. Do you like it? Do you dislike it? Does it still need work? Where do you stand?
Speaker 1:I absolutely think it still needs work. I think it's a really cool feature and I think they're heading in the right direction. This is another one that I think creators and I think this is just one of those things that experience just kind of speaks to. But I think this is another thing that a lot of people that are just kind of new to all of this they're getting really caught up in terms of like okay, this particular video I got like a 5% increase over here or this video just going to isolate what I'm learning here to this one video. Really, when it comes to that particular feature, what they're doing is they're trying to help you understand over time, across a lot of your videos, the things that work. So, when it comes to that particular tool you can upload, somebody actually just put out a video about this. I wish I would have been the person that did that, but I didn't. But somebody just put out a video where they were showing on multiple occasions. They uploaded a video and it has the same exact three thumbnails on it and showing the drastic results that were given from that same exact thumbnail, because the nature of YouTube that it goes in front of different audiences. So you know, the message to you know, people that are making that type of content is, you know, kind of putting shade on this particular tool is that it's more of a thing that you can use to learn over time. And yes, absolutely, you can make big differences to your videos in some cases, but in most cases the differences are relatively small and those differences are things that you need to note so that, when it comes to making your next thumbnail, you can say, okay, well, this seemed to get a better response on some of the videos that I've used this on so far, so let me apply some of that to what it is that I'm doing here on this video. That's really the intention of that tool.
Speaker 1:Now, some negatives I have about it is one they have it based on watch time share, so basically they're calculating the click-through rate plus the watch time, or essentially watch time per impression from each individual video. So I think that's cool because it helps ensure that a viewer's expectations are being met, because when somebody clicks on a thumbnail, they're expecting something on the other side of that, and when they watch for a longer period of time, that's a signal that they are getting what it is that they expected to get. So that particular thing, I think, is a win. However, the downside of that is, let's say, because it is, you know, more focused on the watch time, let's say that you have a lower click through where you, let's say, you get less watch time on a particular video and with that particular video that you get less watch time on, it's still a lot of watch time. Let's say you upload a 30 minute video, you still get 15 minutes worth of watch time on a video, but they're clicking through at a lower rate in that particular case and then they're clicking through at a higher rate on the other one, but then the watch time is just a little bit less than that. But because of the combination of the two it, it selects the winner that isn't really the winner, based on what you might've chosen. So because of that, it kind of distorts that a little bit. So because of that, I think that, um, adding more data to it would be a win.
Speaker 1:So, for example, I want to see traffic sources. Okay, where exactly are people responding in these ways? Because when you're looking at everything averaged out, it's not really helpful from a strategic standpoint. It's great if you're only targeting the recommendation system, but a lot of people also, especially marketers, and you know people that are trying to drive revenue from YouTube. That isn't solely based on how many views you get. You know we target YouTube search for a lot of that, and when you're basing your decisions on the thumbnail that you're going to use in YouTube search on how it performed in the recommendation system, then technically you could be working against yourself there.
Speaker 1:So for me personally, the improvement that I would like to see is show us where exactly the stats are coming from from the results that we get. So TubeBuddy, which you're familiar with as well, austin. So with TubeBuddy, they have an A-B testing tool as well, and it gives like a full report on exactly like where the traffic's coming from, how long they watch for each individual thumbnail, which one drove the most engagement. They have tons of data around each individual thumbnail that you A-B test. If YouTube would apply all of that, then it would be a game changer in terms of the feature.
Speaker 1:Another thing that would is if they could have something that would cater the thumbnails that performed best towards the audience or the traffic source as a part of that.
Speaker 1:So, for example, this thumbnail typically works better on homepages, but it sucks in suggested.
Speaker 1:This thumbnail typically works better in search, but it sucks on homepages, and so therefore, we're showing this one on search, this one on homepages and this one over here on suggested videos or the one that dominates them all.
Speaker 1:However that works out. But yeah, I think they could definitely do better, but I do like the idea that they're stepping into that direction and saying, hey, let's start helping you have a better understanding of how people are responding to your thumbnails so that you can test, and that you can test on page load. So an advantage of YouTube's A-B testing feature for the recommendation system is that it's on page load. So if I load my YouTube up right now and you load your YouTube up right now and we look at the same exact video or same channel page, that is testing a thumbnail we might see something different, just on page load, whereas all of the other thumbnail testing tools they do it within a time period, so like 24 hours here, 24 hours there, and it switches it back and forth that way, which isn't as accurate. So you know, I think YouTube has a real opportunity here to really educate content creators on like a really high level if they move forward on, you know, completely flushing out the tool.
Speaker 2:Have you heard, out of curiosity, any rumors down the grapevine that they are going to be expanding analytics, supposedly?
Speaker 1:they are Okay, good yeah.
Speaker 2:Word on the street is they have plans for it. Nick's got the insider knowledge so I'm sure, like Mr Beast and Daryl will you know, get it first. Oh sure, I love it. Man, that's awesome. So kind of talking from the business side of things lead to becoming actual realized revenue. So description is it clickable cards, is it you know what end cards? Some other just call to action. What are some of your best funneling strategies from YouTube?
Speaker 1:Yeah, all the above you know, because you know people take different actions at different times based on the content that they're watching. So cards are effective. In-screen links are effective. Description links are effective. Telling people the URL in the video is also effective as well.
Speaker 1:When you tell people in the video, you create one barrier, which is they have to leave the YouTube app and then go type it in and they have to remember it in that process. When you add it in the description, you have one barrier, which is they have to find their way into the description to actually click on the link. When you have it on a card, it's right there in the player and they can actually take action from there. Same exact thing from the end screen. But they have to get to that part in the video for that to actually show up. So as long as that card is showing up when you're talking about it, then that is an extremely effective way to drive people off site.
Speaker 1:But one of the things you gotta be really careful of when it comes to YouTube and using those particular features is, let's say, at the very beginning of your video you say something like hey, I'm Austin from Syllabi and you have a card show up and it's within the first minute of your video.
Speaker 1:In that particular case, if you have a lot of people leaving your video at that point in time, then it could have a negative impact on your video.
Speaker 1:So, because of that, if you do use cards, YouTube's recommendation is that you use them within the last 20% of your video so that you don't sacrifice that video for the sake of getting people to click on a card to watch another video or to leave the site Makes sense, but, yeah, sending people through all of those avenues is effective, but the thing that's even more effective is just continuing to add value over time. That's even more effective is just continuing to add value over time, because then people will get to trust you and whatever action that you, you know, tell people to take in the video, if it's clicking something on screen, if it's finding it in the video description, if it is clipping, clicking the shopping link on a short or visiting the URL that you mentioned in a video, if people trust you and they are interested in that thing that you're trying to bring attention to, then they're gonna take the action on it Now speaking about providing value over time to creators, you have an amazing tool called Creator Mix.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about what that is and who that benefits.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so over time I've actually tried to make different free tools for content creators or free resources for content creators. So the very first I did it on a YouTube channel. It was called Free Stock Vids and the whole thing there was I was uploading stock videos because I have tons of just stock B-roll footage not stock, but that I've made. I've got a bunch of friends that are content creators and filmmakers and all this stuff. So the whole idea was that I was gonna create this free resource on YouTube where people can just download the video files through just Amazon S3 links down in the video description everything for free, no opt-in, anything like that and I was uploading videos to it. Everything was going great and then I got hit with a duplicate or yeah, I think it was a duplicate content penalty and they completely took the channel down. Fortunately, I was able to get the channel back up, but it kind of sucked the wind out of my sails for that particular project, so we let it go.
Speaker 1:The second thing is CreatorMix CreatorMixcom. It's a free resource for content creators, marketers, podcasters, anybody that needs music for things. You can use the music in CreatorMix for free. You basically just sign up for an account on the website. You download whatever songs that you want from that website. You can use them freely in your content. There is a license down in the footer that gives you permission to use that content in any way that you choose outside of you know re-uploading it as a free asset or you know selling it in some way. But it gives you full permission to use the content in your content in any way that you would like.
Speaker 1:And one of the reasons that it's important to download that license is because no copyright system is perfect and little details. Because, like, let's say, you have an EDM track and there's like a, you know, just a continual driving, you know, kick drum. Sometimes their systems will identify that and they'll match that particular rhythm and it'll falsely flag it and say that it's another song, but it's not. So when you have that license, then it, you know, then it shows them that, hey, this is the song and, um, when you dispute it, you actually have something that you can give them for your evidence, so to speak, so that you can make sure that you don't have any issues there.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, it's creator mixcom. You can also stream it in your live stream. So we have a Spotify. Um, you know, uh, set up as well to where you can stream it in the background. If you like, have your Spotify connected through OBS or your stream deck or something like that, then you can also stream it in the background there. Just look for creator mix on Spotify, you know, if you want to take that approach, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Out of curiosity, is it?
Speaker 1:is it you and D that are making it, making all the we have music that we've made that's going to go in there too. It's a passion project, so we're just kind of putting stuff in there when we get the opportunity to. D is mainly managing that and he does all the customer service and stuff. Um, but with that, everything that's in there currently is from, uh, people that we've hired to make the music and we bought all the rights and all the stems and you know all that stuff from them. Um, we have, I think, one or two artists in there as well, um, that we actually know personally and all of that that we've also worked out arrangements with to use that stuff in there as well.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic. I'm looking at it right now and it looks great. There's all kinds of different moods and genres on there 80s, retro, chill, dreamy, electronic, energetic, futuristic. We got chill hop, cyberpunk, house, lo-fi uh all things that I listen to while I work during the day uh, so these are, these are awesome. I'm definitely gonna look, uh, look more into this and maybe start using it in some of my long form uh as well. Um, so, to kind of you know wrap up here, because this has been just a 45 minutes of YouTube masterclass here. So thank you for sharing all of that. I guess you know. To sort of end here, what's? What's a final, best piece of advice that you would have for somebody who wants to commit to their YouTube journey?
Speaker 1:All of this stuff is hard for For somebody that's just getting started. It's really important to not compare yourself to people that you see on YouTube, like as a viewer. Good content creators make everything look really easy, and when you're watching videos and you're seeing videos get a lot of views on them and you set this bar that says, okay, well, my content, when I publish my first videos, my content has to get this type of response in it or I'm done. You're really working against yourself in that capacity because you know, for example, you know Austin mentioned earlier that you know he, you know, was working on things for eight years before you know he hit that. You know, before he hit that thing, that he was like, just you know, a rock star at. And then you know, for me, I've been an entrepreneur in some form or fashion since I've been 19. And it took me until I was 39 to start getting any type of real life-changing type of traction.
Speaker 1:So all of this stuff, when it comes to making videos for the internet, when it comes to online marketing, any of that, it's all just a learning curve. Basically, you just have to go through the processes of learning all these different things. So the more time that you can spend learning and then applying what it is that you learn and then learning from what it is that you apply in terms of the response that you get and then doing it again. The more time that you can spend doing that and the faster that you can go through those reps, the faster you're gonna get to where it is that you wanna go, but faster you're going to get to where it is that you want to go.
Speaker 1:But the most important thing is just to always remember that you're in a learning curve and that anytime that you hit a roadblock, if you, you know, start getting momentum and it stops, that means that okay, that means I've learned up to here, so that now I have more stuff that I have to learn to get me past this roadblock.
Speaker 1:Right, so just keep putting one foot in front of the other and anytime you run into that stop point, just look at it as like, oh, like you're not having a problem. It just means that there's more to learn. I just got to learn my way through this and then, through what I learn, I have to constantly keep applying things so I can really get a good understanding of what does and does not work, but always embrace that learning curve and don't compare yourself to people that have been doing this for a year, people that have been doing this for five years, 10 years. If you're just getting started, just identify where you're at, that you're in that beginning process and just focus on that part of the learning curve and you'll get there. You got this.
Speaker 2:Such good advice. That really resonates with me, because I always say like there's seasons of growth and there's seasons of learning, and it's cyclical, it just happens over and over and over again. So really good advice. And I love like the best example is just look at Mr Beast's oldest videos. Like I love that he's kept those up, right.
Speaker 2:Like if you look at Mr Beast's videos today, that is impossible standards to have for yourself, right, but you look at his first videos, he's not even on camera, it's just him playing, you know, video games and talking as a, as a teenager, as a kid, uh, super, super awkward. All of these guys. You know ksi as well, same thing. Like they're just old video game, uh, recordings, and then it turns into something, something else, right, and they, they just stick with it years and years and years and they gain amazing traction. But it's because they never gave up and they continue to learn and double down, like you said earlier on.
Speaker 2:Like you had one video about the SEO, right, and you're like whoa, this got significantly more views than my other content. Let me go down this rabbit hole a little bit. And then you double down on that thing and until it becomes saturated, and then you learn, learn, learn and apply, apply, apply and it continues to grow. I mean, that's not just YouTube, but that's a valuable lesson for everything in life. So, nick, absolutely. If someone wants to get in contact with you, they want to reach out and learn more from you. What's the best way to get ahold of you?
Speaker 1:Just go to nicknemancom, slash bio, and then all roads will lead to Rome from there. My DMs are open everywhere I bio, and then all roads will lead to Rome from there. My DMs are open everywhere. I'm most active on YouTube and Twitter, but my DMs are open everywhere, so you know. If you want to reach out for any reason, feel free to hit me up.
Speaker 2:And I will have all of these links in the show notes for you to check out everybody. Nick, thank you so much again for joining and sharing your wisdom today.
Speaker 1:Thank you, austin. Super appreciate the opportunity to be here today. Super fun conversation and, yeah, man, thank you a bunch for having me on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and thanks everybody for listening to another episode of Business Talk. I hope you learned something from this episode. I know I did. If you did, we would love to hear your thoughts. Leave us a five-star review on wherever you listen to your podcasts iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, some other weird platform, whatever suits you. I'd love to hear it and I will see you soon in the next episode. My friends, Thank you for listening to another episode of Business Talk. If you feel like you're ready to get started on TikTok, I have a completely free TikTok checklist that you can find in the show notes and description of this episode. If you found this episode inspiring, consider leaving us a five-star review on iTunes or your favorite podcast listening platform. I know that's a lot to ask of you, but it really does help the podcast reach more people. Do you have any feedback about the show or a guest you'd like to recommend? Email me at podcast at socialtprocom. Until next time.
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